Samir Balwani 0:00

Hi, I'm Samir Balwani, host of Chief Advertiser and founder of QRY, join me as I talk to industry leaders about their strategies, challenges and successes in managing their advertising and marketing. On our episode today, I have Scott Ohsman, the VP of digital commerce, here at Quickfire. He's awesome. I love chatting with him, and he's super smart, and every time we start talking, we go on for quite a while. So hopefully this one will end up being very, very long, but we'll see how it goes. But thank you so much for being here, Scott. I love it.

Scott Ohsman 0:39

Always a pleasure. Appreciate. This is great having you on our show. Now turn you guys got you. This is fantastic. I love it.

Samir Balwani 0:46

I mean, this is, it's how it begins, and then the podcast mafia starts.

Scott Ohsman 0:51

That's There you go. Conversation. I always learn something. Well,

Samir Balwani 0:56

let's, let's give listeners the beginnings. So tell us about your background, who you are, how you got to where you are, and where you are today. So 2025

Scott Ohsman 1:05

I believe that's the year we're in. That marks my it's coming up, kind of the middle of the year. I will be in retail, in some sort way, really working for manufacturers. It's coming. This will be my 30th freaking year. Same here, 30 years. Amazing. That's awesome. That just that feels so seasoned. It means

Samir Balwani 1:23

you get to watch the ebb and flows of it. Manufacturing today is so different than manufacturing 30 years ago. It is

Scott Ohsman 1:29

in some regards, in some regards it isn't, but yes, it's just I grew up basically as an independent multi brand rep in the northwest of the United States. Back then, we had hundreds and hundreds of independent retailers. I was lucky enough to be with some very big, awesome, amazing brands. My timing was good with Jan sport backpacks and late 90s, earlys. Then I got a big call up to North America, to the north face, Tith, 2004 I basically started out calling on small guys driving my car around, calling on little retailers, then bigger retailers, then I got I worked my way up in Key Account Management, basically, then got the big call up to North Face. And the Northwest is great because we had, back in the day. It's less so now, but we had this great blend of every size, shape of retail you could imagine, and every class of trade. We had run specialty, shoe specialty, outdoor specialty. We had bat and ball. You know, we had actually had sporting good stores back then there were a lot. And then we had department stores. We had all these mid tier, even regional based department stores. So what I grew up is calling because Jansport was a backpack, and we sold to everybody. I got to sell. I learned all of these different types of channels and all these different things. So that's basically where I came from. And then in 2006 long story short, got to work for some big brands, which was awesome, North Face, one, Columbia sports, where was another one, basically is key account guy. We have. We have huge key accounts out of here. So cost goes out of here. If you're not familiar with it, Nord streams is here. There's a pretty large, substantial retailer that does everything, kind of like a Meyer in the Northwest called Fred Meyer. It's owned by Kroger now, yeah, we had Emporium, we had department store, we had anything. So I'm calling all this stuff, and then basically went back into partner in an old manufacturer rep agency in the Northwest, and about to land the plane here. So stay with we're along for the ride. So then Amazon comes to the to the world, and I kind of started in 2006 ish, five, six, sorry, at Columbia, we started selling them wholesale, like just like a normal retail to Amazon, and I started getting interested. And I was always a little bit nerdy, so I computers and all that kind of stuff. Tech was really interesting to me. So really, it started in 2006 where we had our own agency. I was a partner with a guy, and we really started going, Wow, this is really interesting. We should take some of our outdoor specialty brands that we represent, and what if we sold them directly to Amazon on what they call the first party side, vendor Central, yeah. And that's, that's where it starts, and that's why I am where I am today. And some some money regards is because I just read, I ran the Amazon train. Created an Amazon agency within our agency, blah blah blah, bought out my partner, blah blah blah, nobody really cares. Merge, merge, merge,

Samir Balwani 4:28

the standard agency life, yeah,

Scott Ohsman 4:32

the agency life tried to build a big agency. Had a big dream. You and I have talked about this before, where I just my tip, my cat and my heart goes out to all agency owners of of various types or whatever, because it's not it's not easy, and it's really hard. And to be successful at it, to actually be profitable at it, is actually extraordinarily difficult. And then that, then 2020 I've been doing contract work for quick fire with some Amazon. Stuff for some of their clients, and then I went and joined them in 2020 and it's and what I loved about is, because here's the thing, Samir, I spent 20 years right in retail, and then the Amazon thing came. So I'm coming up like a 19 years of that. What I missed, and I got kind of drove in. I was the Amazon guy. This is but when they're myself, and like four other people were doing Amazon agencies like it was just one thing. It was It wasn't a thing, it wasn't Oh, and it was all one piece, all first party was all vendor. And I knew this whole 3p thing was happening, what have you, and I started to pay attention to that. But the truth is, I became kind of an Amazon guy. And what I love about quick fire now and getting back is because we do what you guys do, paid social, paid search, influence, we do all those other digital things. So I got to see how it now. It all works together.

Samir Balwani 5:47

Yeah, yeah. And, I mean, I think the reason why I love having these conversations with you is because you have such a unique perspective coming from that Amazon, you know, first standpoint, and being able to see that. And, you know, transparently, we're dealing with kind of Amazon eating everyone's lunch a little bit. And like, you know, I think the key piece of it is consumer behavior evolves. I remember going into sporting stores and buying the first bat and glove. And now when my son there, when I needed a bat, I went to Amazon and I ordered a bat. And, in fact, thank God I went to Amazon, because I realized that you're supposed to measure people before you buy bats. And like, you know, like, it's just like, Look things like that that, you know, unless I had talked to a sales rep at a sporting goods store. And so consumer behavior continues to shift and and we went into this world where everything was D to C for a while, and, and, and then people remembered, I actually kind of like buying from Amazon, because they lifted their logistics game, and not everyone could keep up with it. And so I love having these conversations, because you understand that that journey and that consumer behavior shift, and I think you have a unique point of view on all of it. So my first question to you is, what's going to happen with advertising and media in 2025 Oh, nothing. It's just gonna think it's

Scott Ohsman 7:14

gonna be exactly the same. No, it's, it's, it's the bot era, Samir, it's the bots. And there's good bads and bot bad bots. There's good bots and bad bots, you know. And I think it's just connected. I think what's really interesting as far as media buying, so, and there's been a lot of work on this, and a lot of people smarter than me, but I think it's super interesting. There's some shifts happening as far as the way that programmatic has been set up the challenge to the trade desk. The challenge, when I'm talking about really major media buying and display, there's been some legacy players that have kind of owned it, right? And then you and then the big market has been, not only full price, but the big market is, is low cost, basically excess inventory that you can buy much better rate. Yeah, you know I'm talking about, yeah, yeah. So I think, and that is continue, we've seen pressure on that over the last two or three years, but players like Amazon, retail media and even the Walmarts and the biggest ones in the world, even if you look at you kind of got to separate somewhat CPG and everything else, because in that world, right? You got Instacart, you got Krogers, there's a much better competitive set in that, if I separate that out, and if you look to just, you know, hard goods, we call it, or basic consumer goods that are not consumable, it's kind of Amazon, and then it's like, it's everyone else, kind of everyone else. But I think it's my my point to that is on the bots and AI and all this other stuff, how people are buying media and how it's building has been set up for these programmatics for 100 years, right? These are big machines, lots of learning, and if we change how that is in media buying and the sense of keywords and audience targeting and the privacy things. I think that's from for media buying. I guess where I'm where I'm getting to is, are the bots going to make it more efficient? I think in some cases, they are, but in a lot of cases, I think you're going to see continual strain on the profitability of media buying. And that's what people like you and I, our job is. And I think it's going to get, you know, more challenging. I

Samir Balwani 9:19

think it's going to get more challenging. I would absolutely agree with you. I think the one thing that I'm excited about in it, though, is that the conversation has stopped being okay. How much are we spending on meta and Google, and now it's how much are we spending in meta and Google? What's our CTV strategy look like? What's our programmatic strategy look like? How are we working with Amazon DSP. And in fact, a lot of our clients, you know, we talk to them, and we'll remind them that for every dollar that you spend on your DTC ads, you're booing Amazon as well. There is an Amazon Halo. So for some of our clients, we actually port in their Amazon data into and combine it with their DTC data so they can get a more. Holistic view of that. There was a whole conversation just recently around the incrementality of Amazon ads, right? Because it is no different than branded search. And if you are questioning your branded search, you should question your Amazon search campaigns too, right? Like they were one in the same

Scott Ohsman 10:17

and that's in the in the PPC side of Amazon. It is changing dramatically. Even the last 18 months, it has changed, I mean, dramatically from a structure point. There's basically no exact match anymore, which is just in that you talk about the byproduct of programmatic and these agencies that set up the min, max and the campaigns and the bid structures, well, you're gonna have to reset all of that. Somebody's gonna have to go in and rebuild it and remodel it, because it's, it's ineffective, yeah,

Samir Balwani 10:46

I mean, that's you and I were just talking about this, and I was showing you what I was building with chat GPT, just as where we got on the call. But like, that's the kind of, I think the when we talk about what's changing in media buying, I think the core of it is not going to change, right? Building camp, like running media to introduce your brand to people, with good messaging that's compelling will always be the overarching thing. The question will just be, how do you execute on that? Okay, let

Scott Ohsman 11:11

me ask you a question. Same here. Let's do it. Can we do that here? Yeah, it's open. I mean, it's more of a conversation. I'm saying this from my Amazon point of view, okay, from and I'm completely obsessed with the live sports and how it's affecting now. I love this, right? I think over the next year, it's, I don't know about this year, but it's going to be the next three year. I think the inventory, the media buying inventory, is going to change dramatically. What do you think? Oh, I

Samir Balwani 11:39

mean, I think it's already starting to change. Okay? Like, I don't disagree with you at all, but I do think, well, so here is the thing, I think, depending on the size of your business, right? So let's talk enterprise. Programmatic ends up being a logistical tool at enterprise, because having direct sponsorships with millions of brand millions of publishers, becomes really difficult. Yeah, if you're a mid market, don't go programmatic. Go talk to your PR team and figure out your five top publishers and just buy direct from them, right? Like, yeah, that's that's where I think it is. That's so when I think inventory is shifting. I think that there is a lot of inventory, and live sports is a key example of it. And you called it out, that's going to become high priority inventory, inventory where my affiliate team is doing really well at well that becomes high in higher value, you know, media inventory, places I want my PR team to be that becomes high value media inventory. So it becomes, how do I prioritize that and then use the black box for everything else? Yeah,

Scott Ohsman 12:50

you bring up affiliate. That's a whole nother rant. I mean, what is affiliate? I mean somebody literally has to go to the internet and actually re I think it needs a definition update. I've been around it for my whole I don't even know what the hell it is. Samira. I mean,

Samir Balwani 13:05

I think my thing about it is affiliate. Is affiliate and influencer with media sponsorships is like the single quickest way to create China conflict period.

Scott Ohsman 13:15

Nobody's got to sort that out. For me, I am not bright enough to understand what you have to define when you use that word. For me, yeah, you got to break that down.

Samir Balwani 13:25

I mean, for us, the thing that we've started looking at for affiliate marketing, which is I, I partner with a website that has a lot of traffic. Or, you know, I mean, the perfect example is gift guides, right? Like you go, you go and you think that I blew my wife's mind when I explained this to her. She was like, wait, what do you mean? Gift guides are paid for that. They're not altruistic. And they're like, no, they're they're all paid for so like, when you look at a gift guide and you see, you know, a recommended product nine out of 10 times it's recommended because somebody is paying to be there. You can pay in one of two ways. It can be a media sponsorship, or a media agency like us will go and say, hey, you know, $10,000 and we want to be on the top of the page. Or it's an affiliate play, which is the brand thinks that your website and your brand is so interesting. Or the publisher thinks your brand is so interesting that if they feature you, people will click through and you will give them a percentage of the sale. The publisher makes a percentage of the sale, and that's why the brand ends up on the gift guide. It's hard. It's hard. The thing that kills me is, and this is so we have a performance affiliate team that we've been building out, not for like your standard affiliate plays, but because we talk to all the publishers on the media side, so why wouldn't I just go to them and say, Hey, I will give you five grand and a lower affiliate commission and let you have a better bang for your buck? Because that has ended up being a lot better. So so there are these things channel conflict ends up they come. A problem. But then Amazon is a huge affiliate player too, and Amazon has a gigantic affiliate program.

Scott Ohsman 15:05

They do. They do. I the way the world turns. Yes, it is. It's heartbreaking to be welcome to being season jaded and skeptical about everything.

Samir Balwani 15:16

It kills me because I go in like, I Google things, I'm like best gift for dads. My God, all these are paid. I don't trust 100%

Scott Ohsman 15:25

that on the on the morning shows, the network morning show, all of that stuff is completely it's a junket. It's paid for. It's when it's good. I'm not I'm not doubting it. And we've had some clients that have a good win on those things. Are agents and agencies and people going out looking for these things, they're getting a lot of money. And this is the way the world works, unfortunately. I mean, it is a brand earn media. There's still some earned media, which means it's not paid for. There is,

Samir Balwani 15:53

okay, yeah, it's a lot harder. I mean, so I will say, Scott, so, so to your point, though, there is a lot of earned media. I actually think the reason why advertising has, like paid placements have grown, is because not a lot of brands are doing enough interesting things to make enough news for earn media,

Scott Ohsman 16:15

probably, so there's not a lot of innovation going out, you know, yeah, out there in some some regards, but, and that's

Samir Balwani 16:22

the thing I would challenge brands to say, do something interesting, stand for something real, and it'll make your life a lot easier. The other

Scott Ohsman 16:29

problem is, depending on enterprise. It's just it costs a fortune. See, people don't understand how much money it costs to actually get anywhere.

Samir Balwani 16:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had another conversation this morning, just about that, it

Scott Ohsman 16:42

takes an enormous amount of money. And a lot of people look at other well, how do they do it? How do they do it? Well, it's usually taken them years, and it's taken them a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of money, yeah,

Samir Balwani 16:53

oh, I mean, it's, it is either time or money, right? It's like, either it's going to take me a long time to do this, but if I want to speed that up, it's just gonna cost me a lot. It's one, it's one or the other. Shameful

Scott Ohsman 17:04

plug here. Do you mind? No, go for it. So the show that I invited you on, the where we met, always off brand, where I'm a co host there. Okay, that little retail podcast, one of my favorite podcasts. I appreciate that so much. And this feed spot came, thing came out, and it said we were number five retail podcast, Okay,

Samir Balwani 17:24

number one in my book. We didn't, thank you,

Scott Ohsman 17:28

but we didn't pay for that. But the point is, I don't know how that cockamamie algorithm, I'm very open about it's like, we don't have a zillion listeners. We're now, what I'm saying is that was earned media, okay, that we didn't actually pay for. And the minute I posted, I just that was my first thing. This was not paid for. I don't know how it happened.

Samir Balwani 17:49

That is actually, really, I have not even considered that before, because that's true, though. Like, if you I now that my wife knows that gift guides are are paid. There is not a single listicle she will look at without be like, God, this was all paid for. So, so I think that that is you started this conversation around live sports, and I know that that is a rant that you are excited to talk. I'm

Scott Ohsman 18:20

just, I think it's, I don't even think it scratched the surface about what we're going to do. And from the Amazon side, right? They're trying to democratize major display advertising, yeah, in their their their movement, and same, actually, Netflix is making some huge, bold moves here as well. I saw just recently, right? Yeah. So I think all of these guys, the competitors, it's the same thing we've lived through. And I mean, you're a lot younger than me, but you've seen it in your time. Is what you came from and started query and everything else. There's just the disruption opportunity to do things better, faster, more efficiently, and to evolve with the consumer. I mean, there's about to be some tidal waves going on, as far as I'm concerned.

Samir Balwani 19:03

I mean, I, I 100% agree with you, across all of it, right? Like I think I like to think about life as a sine wave. So you've got your highs and lows and highs and lows and highs and lows. And I think I would say marketing and business is similar, and you have disruption, you have you have expansion, contraction, expansion construction. And it is this like sine wave. And I think years ago, the sine wave was lower and further. So it took longer to disrupt both up and down, up and down. And I think in the last 10 years that has become shorter and higher. And so we see huge headwinds, huge tailwinds, huge headwinds, huge tailwinds. And it's what's happening now with programmatic right Amazon, DSP and trade desk are about to go head to head in one of the biggest ways possible. But then, you know, we do, we do a review internally, and are looking at all of our costs and where we're. Buying media from and say, All right, well, trade desk has some deals with X Y and Z publishers. And this other programmatic partner has deals with X Y and Z publisher and, well, maybe I should be running on both, like, maybe I should be running on three. And it's like, at what point does it become a logistics problem versus a media buying problem?

Scott Ohsman 20:19

Okay, well, that's an interesting again, we are so off script here. I

Samir Balwani 20:22

mean, we had questions and that we haven't answered, none of them.

Scott Ohsman 20:29

Hey, does this? Does this circle back as far as this arms race, so to speak, between Amazon and all these people, right, and the big wave of retail media networks? To me, this starts and ends with first party data, yeah. So where does that fit with the trade desk, and where does it fit with the publishers, right? Because the sell by the selling point of Amazon is, listen, we got more first party data, and we haven't even deployed half of it, right? And we're constantly getting new because we own so much content. Where is

Samir Balwani 21:02

I mean, that's you there. I mean, that is why for that. I mean, that's literally why Amazon DSP is doing so well, because it's but like Amazon DSP is doing well because they have two tiers of first party data. They have brand awareness tier, which is your live sports, your Twitch, your Amazon Prime, and their entire display network, right? Because they're collecting so much data at that level. But then they have conversion to your data too in Amazon search and Amazon display and Amazon comm proper. So not only do they know, okay, this is the so when I want to buy a backpack, the person that buys a backpack also watches these shows. So now I can go to Amazon st and be like, I want a full funnel, campaign, top to bottom, trade desks, data and most of the programmatic display that is, it's coming from second party, right? Like it's it's not there. They don't own the data. It's not theirs. They are licensing it and getting it so they still have access to it. They have to do a much. They have to do a bigger job of really understanding the data, because they don't own the ecosystem on which it lives on, and that makes a huge difference,

Scott Ohsman 22:13

because still and people are getting, you know, chipping away at it to your point, what you just described is what, what has threatened everything. And I think is fascinating is Amazon's ability to basically collapse the funnel. What you just described is, I can take the top and collapse it down into conversion and and, by the way, just, just so we're, you know, you know, if I'm showing off, I can actually track it and show you and measure it and return to you, but much higher likely, actual, accurate measurement of it than you had from all these other legacy places and all these other publishers, right?

Samir Balwani 22:50

Yeah. I mean, that's exactly it. And the thing that will be interesting is, how much do they allow other people to access that data for other things. What point does it go from I want to sell more on Amazon to Amazon? DSP is a business unit of its own, and it is like a separate entity and acts different like so how I just want

Scott Ohsman 23:19

to make sure it's not broken out on their earnings report. Is separate. I get your point.

Samir Balwani 23:25

Yeah. I mean, that's the thing. It's like, at what point does it stop being no, they don't want it like the Val the data is too valuable, right? And the data is so valuable as long as it leaves, and especially when it leads to a sale on Amazon, too.

Scott Ohsman 23:39

Yeah. I think there's two separate things, right? If you're that's why the non ing Matic that the Hyundai's and the service sex. That's why they're going after that so hard. First of all, huge dollars, massive insurance companies, these are massive dollars. Are they gonna provide? Are they gonna give you their data? Now, the last three years from an advertising set, they've actually given you more and more data, internal data. Yeah, I'm just old and jaded, just, you know, like your wife is now about buying gifts on gift guides. And I question the data a little bit. I little off. I don't, I don't take it just for, for, you know, face value, but still, directionally, they've offered more and more. So I think the way they're going to get an infiltrate and try and basically take some market share away from these other major publishers is they're going to come at it with like, hey, you know, well, I'm going to offer you because I not only am, I can see what they like, see what they search. I can tell you what they bought.

Samir Balwani 24:39

I mean, it is really interesting in that Amazon has created a world where they are the content creator, the conversion vehicle, and the advertising network, right, that and that, and then they're adding on the social element with why, like influencer marketing, that's

Scott Ohsman 24:55

been a struggle. That's been a struggle, that's why, I mean, I always joking, but not. Okay, I know the reason, whole tick tock thing, but, like, even three years ago, well, I mean, Walmart tried to buy tick tock and then Microsoft tried to big to you know, there's been multiple people trying to, this is back in 2017 2021 but I was just like, God, Amazon, you can't get the social commerce thing going. So just buy tick tock and put us out of our memory.

Samir Balwani 25:19

Well, they tried with Twitch, right? Like Twitch was their first forehead for a into it. And so, I mean, I will be interested to see, kind of, how it plays out. But the part for me, because, again, we work with a lot of consumer brands on Amazon, off Amazon, in retail, wholesale, kind of, you know, the gamut, the amount of brands that want to be on Amazon, don't want to be whole. Like risk management means that you can't be wholly managed by Amazon, because you still need to own your own data, and you still need to understand your customer, and you still need to have a really like the DTC world gave all these brands an opportunity to actually understand who their customer is and improve their product build and their brand building, and all of that that gets lost when you're just on Amazon. Totally. I don't think enough brands think about it that way, or don't value that enough.

Scott Ohsman 26:10

Well, they don't, so are they. I guess they don't know how to leverage their own first party data, because that's basically what they've gained over the last Yeah, I think that's

Samir Balwani 26:20

exactly it. I think that they don't. So one, I don't know that they know how to leverage their own first party data. I don't think they know how to engage with their like, I think the there's like, first party data for media, and that's fine, right? Like, I connected Klaviyo with meta, and like, we're good to go, right? But then there's like, I engaged my first party data. I have a really strong email, SMS program. I have a really strong loyalty program. I have voice of the customer committee, where our VIPs are coming in and telling us what they like about our products, right? Like all of that is stuff that needs to be done. Like SaaS platforms do this so well, because they understand that they they need to do this. But for whatever reason, consumer brands are just like, I know what's best for my customer, and I'm going to continue doing what I do best. And it's, you know, they're not taking advantage of it, and then it doesn't show up on a P and L. So everyone's like, Oh, DTC is not working.

Scott Ohsman 27:12

That That couldn't be more true. And they need to talk to these major retailers that are also like, I always look at a Macy's. Or a Macy's is just such a classic example. But remember, Macy's been collecting credit card information and basically deep personal behavior and purchasing and all kinds of other information for 3040, years? Yeah, and what have they done with it? No, I mean nothing, not, not a thing.

Samir Balwani 27:37

And it is. It is one of those things where, like managing through change is so hard because laughter die. Man, yeah, to bring it back full circle, like media is in a pivotal and I'm gonna do a shameless plug now, but for brands that need an agency, you need an agency to help you through the pivotal moment. So if your agency is just like, hey, yeah, we're hitting our goals, we're feeling good, like, great. 15 minute phone call. No, it's okay. We hit our goals. We're doing great. Here are the things I'm nervous about in the next six months. Tick tock is going to go away again. We'll need to figure out where to redeploy those dollars. Media CPMs are increasing. New rules and regulations on meta Google search is losing to chat. GPT, what do we want to do about that? How do we want to think about AI search? All of those things, are things that you need to be thinking about now, otherwise you're going to be solving for it after people have already figured it out. It

Scott Ohsman 28:35

comes down to supply and demand as everything does. And to me, Sameer is you need somebody who understands. There's we always talk about inventory, right? We talk about we're both in same page. We think the inventory is going to is shifting. It's already shifting. It's going to shift even more. So you better have the people on your team who understand and have their core, you know, their eye around the corner to see where the most cost effective inventory is going to be for your brand? Yeah, yeah, period. And you can't do it by yourself, because the landscape is changing so massively, there's no way for you to consume it all. Cost severe right now. Let's get it done.

Samir Balwani 29:15

I mean, I think the hard part is, is that a lot of agencies think about it from the tactics first, it's like, I want it. Oh, man, all right, now I'm starting on a rant, and this is the problem. I hang out with you both fine. This is

Scott Ohsman 29:30

your ball game. My

Samir Balwani 29:34

the I get so frustrated when I'm on LinkedIn and I see growth hack one and growth hack two. And like garbage. We made millions. Like you want to know what the number one growth hack is. Just know your customer. How do they purchase from you? How long does it take them to purchase from you? Who influences them? Bat, hey,

Scott Ohsman 29:51

I will take this conversation, which, again, if anybody listens to this, I don't know what you've gained, all these changes and all this shiny things. And the AI, and all the bad bots, good bot, all this other garbage that's going on. The truth is, know your customer, but it's basically what's still working on, whether it's Amazon, whether it's Google, meta, what you is fundamentals, and you and I kind of bonded over this in our first meeting of the fact that the rules of digital advertising still apply period fundamentals, time, patience, understand digital math and you will it's going to work out for you. Yeah,

Samir Balwani 30:29

yeah. I think that's a perfect close to this episode of which I had eight questions, and we got through about half of one. So

Scott Ohsman 30:40

I tried to speed up, like, where your my life story?

Samir Balwani 30:43

Oh, I loved it. I mean, I think that that was important. We got to, where do you think advertising and media buying is going? And then, yeah, that went where it needed to go. So, you know what it's going, you know it's going,

Scott Ohsman 30:54

it's going to live sports, that's where it's going. Same here, I think it is. I think, I mean,

Samir Balwani 30:59

the Super Bowl will be, and we are taping this at the beginning or the end of January, just before the Super Bowl. And I am very excited to see the Super Bowl stats once this is done, and I think that that is going to be the canary in the coal mine for a bunch of people. So Scott, thank you so much for joining us. If someone wants to find you online, wants to follow you, listen to your podcast, which they should be doing, where can they go? Find out more? 

Scott Ohsman 31:29

Just try me on the link. The link is LinkedIn. That's what I call it on the link.

Samir Balwani 31:34

I'll include everything in the show notes. But thank you again. So much. Man, great.

Scott Ohsman 31:38

Thanks for having me on. Man, always good.

Samir Balwani 31:44

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