Intro 0:04

Welcome to another episode of Ecom Experiences a podcast for ecommerce marketing leaders who want to grow and scale their brands faster. Join us as we interview some of the smartest brand founders and marketing leaders in the industry. Explore the lessons they learned discover the keys to their success, discuss what excites them most about the future.

Samir Balwani 0:28

Samir Balwani here host of Ecom Experiences where we talk to brand founders and marketing leaders about their experiences growing brands. This episode is brought to you by query query is a paid media agency that helps brands balance brand awareness and performance marketing to drive predictable and profitable growth. To learn more about how we can help you visit WWE, our QR y.com. Today, I have Chelsea Schultz from ettitude years. She's the director of acquisition and growth and an all around passionate marketer are really excited to chat with her and so excited to have you here. Thank you for joining us, Chelsea.

Chelsea Schulz 0:59

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited about this.

Samir Balwani 1:02

Oh my god, I had a chance to check out ettitude.com. But for everyone else, can you tell us about the brand? What makes it special? Why you're so excited about it? Yes,

Chelsea Schulz 1:11

so I actually am fairly new to the e-comm space, which we'll probably dive into. But I was really looking to jumpstart my career in e-comm. And looking for a business in the b2c space that I was really passionate about that could stand behind their messaging that I could be comfortable as a marketer selling their product and telling people hey, you should buy this. I think that's just a core value line of being really excited about the business. And I came across the ettitude ettitude is a sustainable bed linens company is what I kind of recap us as we sell sustainable bedsheets, towels, blankets, and really focused on bringing your health and sustainability into your bedroom and your home. So all of our fabrics are made out of bamboo and hemp things that are weeds that are easily grown, they don't take much water, they don't take, you don't need any, like fertilizer or pesticides to grow them and are healthier for you to sleep in. Because obviously you sleep for what is it like a third of your life. So you're you want your skin to be touching something that's actually healthy for you. And to be honest, cotton is not that cotton is grown with a lot of pesticides and things. But that's how I came across the attitude is I was just like looking for a company that I really believed in love their fabrics, the bed sheets are so soft if you get the chance to experience them. And I was just so fond of the team were female founded and female lead. And it just was such a good experience to hop into this team that it was like, Yes, I can absolutely market to people about this brand and about this business because I love it so much. And it's something that I'm passionate about. And our products are amazing. So it's like a win win win.

Samir Balwani 3:09

It's so funny you say that because it's like if you can't be excited about the product, how are you going to get other people excited? Eight, I whenever you talk to marketers, and they're like, oh, I don't know nothing about this, I'm just like, but then how are you getting other people excited about it, at least like want to learn about it and be a part of it? And like, you know, get beyond just the technical aspects of marketing it. So I hear you on that for sure.

Chelsea Schulz 3:29

Absolutely. I have to be honest, and add a few companies that at the end of the day, like we agreed with customer complaints, we agreed with some of the issues that the product had. And it was really hard to say like you're you know, you're in Google ads, writing out like, Hey, this is the best product and you know that you're lying. And it's just like, to me, I couldn't do it. I just had some sort of internal conflict with that and separated myself from it. So I only work with companies that I'm really a firm believer in, I do a lot of freelance marketing and leadership on the side of just recommending to companies where I think they should be investing their dollars. And a lot of that comes down to products. I want to work with products I believe in and I just, it's honestly way more fun at the end of the day, if you really believe in the product, too. It's

Samir Balwani 4:27

so much more fun and so much more successful. The worst is when you're like talking to someone, why is it my marketing working? I'm like you have 101 star reviews, like what do you think is gonna happen? Right? Like maybe we actually shouldn't market this. Why don't we work on the product right now? And then let's lead back to it. Right so. And it's funny too, because sometimes it's not even that the product is bad because you know, SAS and startups talk about this all the time like product market fit. And so for our agency when we're looking at Brands, we really do look at product market fit around. What's your conversion rate on the site? What's the EO V What's your return rate? like, what, what does loyalty look like? Do you actually have a product that people are excited to buy from you trust to buy from you, and then want to tell their friends about right? And so like, otherwise, marketing just doesn't work. It's not gonna go anywhere. So I love that I love that you looked for a role like that. I love that that was your guiding star. So speaking about that. So tell me about your journey. I know. It definitely was not a straight line into marketing. And I think that that's such a unique path and an important one, too.

Chelsea Schulz 5:31

Yeah. So like her, I always tell people brings me back to high schools really where all this started. Because I was really good at math and have a lot of teachers that were like, Hey, you should do something in math. And I honestly thought I was going to move into a career that was somewhat artistic space, was really looking into your just how math could lead me forward. Because I was what I was excited about at the end of the day, and wasn't really partial to any certain discipline. But then I got introduced to a few actuaries, and was recommended that I should lean into actuarial science in college and for anyone listening if you don't know what an actuary is. Just one sentence recap is those are the people that set your insurance rates. So they work in you have actuaries on field you have sports actuaries. And will statistician statisticians for the most part. So anyway, that was the field I thought I was going to go into. I went into college with that degree, wound up graduating with it. But while I was in college, I was actually working with an actuary and with some underwriters in the insurance field, and hated it. And this is probably where my like background, I have to be working with a company that I've like firmly believe in, but only had what all call my own mental breakdown of like, knowing that I was setting rates and helping decide stuff that was like personally impacting people in the health world. And like people that could not afford something based off of how the insurance companies and the pharmaceutical companies were working together, just had a whole crisis about it and was like, I cannot work in this field. I don't want to work in this field. I don't know what I'm doing. I packed up my bags moved to New York City, my parents were like, What the heck is happening to my daughter, I don't know what's going on. And I started like just talking to a few people and talking to a few companies and met this really great agency that was a marketing agency, that really took a chance on me, they were like, Look, you have a great like background. We know that we can train you to do some like data analytics, let's bring you in, why not working with them for a year and a half and love, like just fell in love with marketing. I started work working in direct mail where I was working with clients like St. Jude and Hearst and getting them to like re up their subscriber rate when it came to all of the things that they were sending out direct mail. And I fell in love with it and actually started working with them kind of like one on one giving them recommendations as more of a marketer than a data person. And that's when I was like, I need to work in marketing because like there's so much of this information that I can I understand it, and I can give those recommendations. So from there, I was hooked and jumped into the like marketing space, I started working for a few like big.com. So I worked at ave.com i worked@legalzoom.com. I worked in match.com really in the service world and likes that the like I said earlier, I really wanted to hop into something that I'm selling the product. So I wanted to hop into E commerce. And now I'm at attitude, which is kind of like my big jump into E commerce and having us like a physical product, that you could say, Hey, this is you know, what, what I think that you should buy, but my whole background has really been led from this, you know, do we believe in this thing? And like, do we think people should be spending their money here? And then also like, what, what is the data telling us and like, what can I dive into at a company and give them recommendations off? And I think that's where I release to exceed and have success in my career is just sitting there looking through the data and like parsing through what is too much data, what do we not need to know what do we need to know? And then giving recommendations off of that. And that's why I love doing so I'm kind of sticking with it at this point.

Samir Balwani 9:59

I love it. I love it because I feel like most marketers are recovering something else. And it's like, like I was, I was supposed to go to law school. And I realized I was like, I don't know if I want to be a lawyer like, this doesn't. Maybe this is the route. And so I ended up in marketing. And I think it's just the funniest thing.

Chelsea Schulz 10:16

So funny too, because marketing, and I tell people this all the time, and like non marketers, I don't think believe this. Marketing is so stressful. It is incredibly stressful. And like the amount of times I'm just like, maybe I will have a heart attack when I'm 35. Because I am like worried about my budget. At two o'clock in the morning. I am waking up in the middle of the night wondering whether or not like, did we regroup on this that I tell people to shut off this campaign? Like, there's so many things I get stressed about? And it's funny that we come from like these other stressful, intense hours, and then just be like, That's too much. Yeah, this amount of stress, where I'm still dying every day. That's fine for me. It's

Samir Balwani 11:06

funny, because my friends will be like, Samir. I know you went into this because you were really excited about it. But we don't get to see you on like Thanksgiving. And I'm like, yeah, no, it's Black Friday. I'm sorry. We'll see you after.

Chelsea Schulz 11:17

I have told people that before. I'm like, I don't travel on Thanksgiving like that. And it's funny because in the service, like industry world, we were completely dead Black Friday, like, Legal Zoom, pretty much dark all Thanksgiving week. Like we could do whatever we wanted. We could go up party all week. And it just didn't matter. Because that was our slow week. And then switching over to e-comm. It's yeah, it's this. It's everything leading up to like the December holiday December and like, you know, Christmas when you have Boxing Day, and it's just like, I'm constantly on like theater, holidays. I'm like, talk to me in like July, I gotta say that

Samir Balwani 11:57

I love that you hear you're like talk to me in July, my team and I just did our what worked, what didn't work for Black Friday, Cyber Monday. And one of the things that we were like, We got to start earlier. So now our internal planning, literally, our internal planning for 2024. Holiday is on our calendar for June 1, we start our internal holiday planning, and then our expected holiday briefings for all of our client is July 5. And I was like guys, like, what are we just not? We're gonna be talking holiday the entire year. Aren't we like this is just it. So?

Chelsea Schulz 12:28

Yeah. I mean, you got it pretty much. It's pretty much where companies make all of their revenue. And it's, yeah, the rest of the year. It's like, oh, yeah, you're doing son marketing, you're doing brand marketing, you're doing like interesting tests and campaign. And then it's like holiday season. And it's like, okay, only the things that worked. And this is what worked last year. And this is what like Google and Facebook are telling us we need to do this year. And it's just craziness and for us at edited. This is the first year that we dove into Amazon, and Amazon is all new for me. I've never touched it before. So I don't really have any recommendations, but we've just been kind of winging it. And just dealing with them and learning, like how much product should we have in stock and just all the coordination, that's not even just marketing, but coordinating with the Amazon payments? Like, what are these kinds of sales? And what should we be doing? And what do we what products should even be on Amazon? What are you guys expecting to sell during this time? And it was just crazy me of like having these two channels. And that was that was pretty much our whole focus was just like, what are we doing in November like this is the biggest deal for us. And yet people outside marketing don't understand that they

Samir Balwani 13:53

don't understand it at

Chelsea Schulz 13:53

all. They're like, Come hang out, like let's have a Friendsgiving let's have a regular Thanksgiving, like I can't you know what I'm bringing my computer.

Samir Balwani 14:02

I don't know for sure it bringing my computer. The best part about it though, that the one thing that I will say as you you hit on it a little bit ahead of time is being a marketer for a direct to consumer brand with like a physical product. There is nothing more fun than going to a friend's house and seeing them with a product that you are like that you like I think like being an agency owner, especially with like a bunch of brands when I go somewhere and I see one of the brands that we support in someone's house. That's like the best feeling ever and I just think that bad is something you couldn't get@legalzoom.com

Chelsea Schulz 14:38

Yeah, it only when I was like, it was funny when I was in the dating space world. I eventually was like, I have to leave. I've been with my boyfriend for 10 years. He never met on dating apps. I'm like, I have no idea what it's like to be on a dating app. It's actually came across in my marketing and I'll be very honest about it because There were a lot of things I just like, didn't understand. And people were like, Oh, you're a good marketer, this should translate. And I was like, I guess it probably should, but I just didn't have the personal experience for it. And I, to echo, like, what you're saying, I love working somewhere where like my friends and stuff, love it. And you know, you can just have that you're really proud of something, you're really excited that, you know, knowing that other people have this, and you brought it to them, and they enjoy it. It's just like, tenfold when it's your friends, I think. But it's it is a really nice little feeling to have.

Samir Balwani 15:43

So it's also me. So tell me, as we look ahead to 2024, what are the biggest challenges that you're kind of looking at are the things that you're hoping to accomplish? For the brand.

Chelsea Schulz 15:55

I will probably say the biggest thing for us right now that we're, you know, constantly coming up in topics. So we have to talk about and figure out is relieved at the economy. And also like the economy as a whole. ettitude is kind of what I think of as like a mid luxury brand, where a higher price point, because all of the processes and things that we do to get our product out pretty much out the door, it's going to be more expensive than getting a set of target cotton sheets. It just is we've tried to cut down our price, we've tried to, you know, talk to do like reach out to consumers in a way that like we can offer them discounts for certain things. But our price point is our price mine at the end of the day, and there's a higher kind of luxury price point. Now, the people that are really into sustainability, tend to not be the same people that are buying luxury goods, which I think is really interesting. They're not people going out and you know, spending $2,000 on a Gucci purse and have that even that Paul are about then. So finding, like, where do we sit in our audience, and the audience of the United States, Australia wherever we sell, but also getting to them right now, when they're strapped for cash, because everything's expensive. And, you know, I'm not going to say, hey, you should buy a pair of sheets over, you know, buying groceries for the month. I know, extreme example. But like people are, you know, like thinking about, you know, people want to buy houses, and they're trying to like, save money to buy houses. And right now, everything's expensive for your house for your rent and whatnot. I'm just sitting here at the end of the day being like, your show, buy some sheets, fancy sheets for your house, and it is just really hard. And so for me, it's about talking about like our price point, and why our price point is what it is, and what that means to our customers and what that means for their life, how does it fit in with their budget and what they shouldn't be spending money on or should be spending money on? So it's just really interesting. I think that the economy right now and people thinking about, you know, where their cash is going to just make sure that we're in that conversation and saying like this is a better alternative for you this is a longer lasting alternative for you. And I promise it will bring a little bit more joy to your life then cheaper alternatives. But having you know people strapped for cash when you are not fast fashion is very difficult right now and I feel for a lot of brands that are out there especially clothing brands just trying to make it in the industry right now because everything is almost fast fashion. I mean you have you have bedding and linens now on I always forget how they're pronounced Shin Yeah, and like she emu and stuff like that. And I keep telling people like you, you know that these are full of toxins like these are not the things that you want to sleep on like that these are bad like our sheets, you can sleep on our sheets without washing them. And I try and like convince people this I was like you are you know, sacrificing things for cost. And you just have to remember that but my whole thing for marketing right now, going back to your question is just like, how do we have that conversation? Because they're short attention span and marketing. But I'm trying to bring you into a longer conversation about how you know some things are harmful. Some things need to be focused on and really thought through. Oh, and I'm doing that with a kind of higher price point that's already kind of like stopping you from looking into it further. So there's a lot of challenges, but I kind of overarch them with just somebody economy, it's kind of conversation.

Samir Balwani 20:16

It's really interesting what you said, because I think, when the economy was good, and your people were home spending through COVID, the competitive set was the competitive set. And now the competitive set includes not buying and not buying is a big part of the competitive set now, that is bigger than it ever was before. Yeah, if you think about the customer journey of like, awareness, consideration and conversion, I would say that a lot of people are falling out of the consideration set and just deciding not to purchase more than, like, ever before. Because they are making that decision, whether consciously or subconsciously, oh, I can buy this thing that will make me feel good. Or I can buy groceries, right? And like, when, regardless of how much your income is, you're like, that's all it is a process. So is it this or that. And I do think luxury brands have this unique challenge of having to communicate brand. In a very short attention span world. Like, I mean, old school, luxury commercials, or 62nd, long videos and storytelling, and you could never do that anymore, right? Like there may be a spirit. But that's not where the majority or messaging is coming from these days. Yeah.

Chelsea Schulz 21:39

And that's so hard and less than, you know, five seconds to even get someone's attention to come across them say, Hey, I, you should buy this $30 t shirt over all of your options for $5 T shirts. And that's why I think like the apparel space is the worst right? Now let's fast fashion, but like fast fashion is really taking over everything else. And it's just, it's just so hard. I feel for marketers, and there was some statistic that came out and I'm not gonna get this right. But in Black Friday, like, yes, obviously, there was a lot of money spent during Black Friday holiday. But there was a significant increase. I'm not gonna throw out a percentage, but it was a significant increase in a number of brands, which I thought was really interesting, because like, we a lot of like millennial marketers will say, like, I remember, you know, when we were flooding all of these stores, and everyone was buying things. And it's like, you don't have that you have hundreds of 1000s of these small brands that are really great, like really good quality, really good products that like I would love to shop for, there's so many of them, that you can't even like make a dent in the huge overall conversation that's happening right now. So I mean, the I think the general conversation for marketers is just like, how do you get in front of the people that you want buy your product? And it just that is? That is our question that is like how do we how do we show up and say our brand, you know, he's what we would have had 60 seconds for before, in less than two seconds. Make sure that you don't scroll past it. That's crazy. Anyway,

Samir Balwani 23:29

I think it is definitely a unique challenge. But I mean, so let's switch gears What what are you excited about for next year, though? Like, what are you looking forward to?

Chelsea Schulz 23:39

I have a well, at least for ettitude, I have a direct one because we are switching warehouses and are not warehouses, factories. So we have a whole new line of products coming out next year that the team is just like so excited about, we have all colors we have like all new, like makes and details. And we're just so excited about like the new partners that we were bringing in last year to have this like really, really great product this year. So we as like the marketing team are just like prepping to make sure that we have all of our conversation points for these products and making sure that it comes across on our website and making sure it comes across in our marketing and that these products are kind of like the true example of like, what do we say? What is added like what are we trying to sell you at the end of the day? What do we want you to be bringing into your life. So it's gonna be a really exciting year marketing team attitude, which I am so hyped about. I just love having new products I love you know, working with our influencer who's working with podcast, and people that get to like, tactile, like experience the product and then talk about it. I think is always so fun. And then also For us to get, like feedback from them and use that in our marketing and like, why did you love it? So that kind of goes through a whole process. I think when we get these new products up, like the marketing team gets feedback, we get contacts, we get, you know, all of these new fresh things. And it just, I, you know, like I see it Mike name, like it adds life into our team, like everyone, like, you know, faces smile, when we're talking about this and edit to this also having their 10 year anniversary in business. Congratulations. So yeah, it's really exciting. So we're going to be doing a few little things there, which we're very, very hyped for. So for me, personally, it's just like a lot of stuff with attitude, to just like, grow the business and showcase like these amazing products that we're bringing in that were just so hype about have like the whole team hyped about it is just incredible. And it makes me happy. And that actually makes me sleep better. So I

Samir Balwani 26:04

think there is nothing gets a marketing team more excited than news, like anything that you can give a marketing team where you're like, oh, that's new there they're on board with and that's, that's all they needed. I love it. I'm so excited to see all those products when they come out. So tell me, what advice would you give a new marketing leader? Someone that's coming into a direct to consumer brand? They're leading a team, what should they do? What should they do first? What should they focus on?

Chelsea Schulz 26:35

I took a leadership course last year. And it was honestly one of the best things that I did for my career. The biggest takeaway that I had from that was so small, but made such a difference for me. And that was to ask the team, any late new people, and now I do this every day in my like one on ones or weekly one on ones, whatever I have with my team, because I asked them what made their day or made their week difficult. And it was just like this small statement that was said in this class. And it just like stuck with me of like, oh, well, I can you know, tell people to do this, that and the other? And yes, you'll have been do it. And if I have the team at like, say, hey, like, what do you need my help on? Most of the time, they're like, Oh, I think I have everything. But now I pointedly asked like what made your day difficult. And I allow myself like five to 10 minutes to have this. Because what I've noticed is for my team, sometimes this turns into a rant. And sometimes they need that line, that they're just so like frustrated with something that they need someone who understands to just listen to them. And the funnier thing is, I realized that this has taken stress off of everyone's partners or significant others, because they are renting to someone who like actually gets it and can like help them make change, versus them like to their boyfriend or girlfriend when they get home to just like have this whole rant because they need to decompress. So it was very funny to me when I started asking this, and I got feedback from my team saying like, you know, I'm not complaining when I love that oh comes home, which I thought was hilarious. But I started doing this. And I did this too with like my external, like companies that I work with. It's like, what, what is making this difficult? Like, what are you having issues with? And I even do this, like vertically in the company like going upwards of like asking, you know, like, my bosses like what made their day difficult, because you can really ask this to anything, anyone, and you'll get great feedback. And sometimes, like I said, it's a rant, and it's something that you can't change, and they just need the space, and then they feel better. You're moving on. But a lot of the times it's something that I've realized that I can make a change, I can create a process I can, you know, ship things around, maybe it's someone's like, not someone's role to be doing this thing and like we need to have a bigger discussion about it. And it just really helps me and like bubble up those conversations and lie advice as like any, like marketing leader is to just like have those conversations. And honestly, there have been times where I've asked people what has made their day difficult and the answer was me. I have to sit there and listen to like how I made their data fault. And it first of all, I applaud my team for them like trusting me to do it on you. Yeah, good. But like sometimes you just like happen have those conversations, and it has helped me so much and learning, you know, like, where I should be focusing my time how I can be best supporting my team, how I can make the change that is, you know, better for my direct reports and better for people in business, that maybe I was staying pain in the butt all week. And I really need to recognize that and make some apologies. So that I can like, take the time to do so. And it just makes such a better work experience. So highly recommend, like having those conversation. And once you have those conversations, people know that they can come to you with more conversations. So I found like, other teams will talk to me about things because they know that I'll help them like brainstorm next steps and everything. So highly recommend it, it's super simple, super easy to add to your one on ones and your meetings. And you can get so much value from it and learn both in the business and in your own career. I

Samir Balwani 31:01

mean, I love that because I think the best leaders know how to get rid of obstacles and help their teams. And if you don't give the team the opportunity even tell you what the obstacle is, how are you actually going to help them? So I think that is a great way to get to that. So you know, I have my one last question. Is there anything that you want to share that you haven't shared yet that you think would be helpful for our group leader readers? And listeners? I guess?

Chelsea Schulz 31:27

It's a good question. Because I feel like I talked so much that I don't know what I don't know. And I'm like, I could probably tell you like 50 things that will be great. And certainly things that don't make any sense. But I do

Samir Balwani 31:44

love that battle alone is so valuable of just you don't know what you don't know. And I think that that I think the best marketing leaders really understand that and like fulfill that because there's so much every day it changes and something different. But

Chelsea Schulz 32:01

I think to that, why, like just being open for learning constantly. And also, I will say not getting cocky, that you can learn from anyone, because we have, like I have worked with like high school interns that have taught me things like gone into this being like, I know everything about social media marketing, like paid and organic. And then I come into a meeting with someone who's like actively using social media in a different way. And I'm like, I have no idea what I'm doing. Thank you for clarifying that I have no idea what I'm doing. So I think that there's just so much in marketing that you can always be learning. And I see a lot of people get really cocky. And I try very hard to just be like, Look, I'm constantly learning I want to learn from everyone and everything. And everyone out there has some sort of pips and key takeaways. That's why I love podcasts like this. It's like, you can sit there and listen, you don't know what you're gonna take away from home. So it's just absolutely amazing to keep that going through percent.

Samir Balwani 33:08

I love it. Yeah. Thank you so much, Chelsea, for joining us today. This was so much fun. Where can people learn more about you?

Chelsea Schulz 33:15

It's a great question. You can find me on LinkedIn. I think it's just under Chelsea Schulz But I'm going to quickly Yes, that is just that you can find me on LinkedIn. And my last name is spelled Schulz, yeah,

Samir Balwani 33:31

well added to the show notes to sue so you can find her and thank you again, Chelsea, this was such a great conversation. Thank you.

Chelsea Schulz 33:38

Thank you

Outro 33:47

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